Hartwood Automotive's Front Mount Intercooler Announcement

fastmaul · Post by **fastmaul** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:40 pm

rat_n_a_cage wrote:well, I called... $2500.00

Wow, that's a lotta cheese!!! sheesh, for that money I can get a Real RS500 IC with pipes made! and still have some left over for a rear wing (RS of course).

Post by **Ed Lijewski** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 pm

fastmaul wrote:
rat_n_a_cage wrote:well, I called... $2500.00
Wow, that's a lotta cheese!!! sheesh, for that money I can get a Real RS500 IC with pipes made! and still have some left over for a rear wing (RS of course).

Yeah. Hard to swallow a price like that for something that doesn't make the car look better and few will ever actually see (the installed system does look nice!).

YMMV

MerkXRTurbo · Post by **MerkXRTurbo** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:57 pm

They should get a car and on a Dyno before and after the install. If it shows some really impressive numbers it will sell.

Depeche · Post by **Depeche** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:06 pm

wow, that is a lot of money! a completely custom setup would cost me less...oh well, there goes my hopes and dreams....LOL

AnHonestCitizen · Post by **AnHonestCitizen** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:37 pm

Wow, that's a lotta cheese!!! sheesh, for that money I can get a Real RS500 IC with pipes made! and still have some left over for a rear wing (RS of course).

True, but you would have to ditch your AC. Dave's IC/Rad combo is Air Conditioning friendly! Plus, it has a few extra features made just for the XR4Ti, like having the radiator inlets and outlets in the best possible places for our cars, and putting in the fan control switch bung. Even though the RS500 stuff is made for the Sierra, you would have to do some thinking and fabbing once you got it out of the box. You don't have to do that with Dave's kit, so there's some "added value" to it.

Also true is that it is so expensive that it can make you cry. But as I understand it, this is going to be more of a kit than just a bare IC/Rad combo. (I may be wrong about that, though.)

So you can think of Dave's kit as a "No Compromises" Kit. You don't have to ditch your AC. You don't have to use something that's "good enuff", but not optimal for the XR4Ti. Plus, you get a kit that was designed from the outset to be a drop-in installation to our cars.

And what is also true, believe it or not, is that I'm not a paid PR flak for Hartwood Automotive. . . I just play one on the Forum.

Post by **Ed Lijewski** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:59 pm

Nonetheless the price point is cause for speculation if not simple wonder. It's clear from this thread that a number of people would dig deep for this kit (I'm sure it's complete; and, that's the price probablyfully installed by Hartwood). To justify the $2,500 the profit margin would have to be around 20%; an understandable price point with a niche market small volume item. Business/economics texts tell us that businesses are advised to and universally do set prices at market clearing levels to maximize profits; no higher, no lower. $2,500 for this kit seems on the surface to set that principle on its head; it does clear the market--of all buyers.

[Re the bung on the radiator lower pass. side, any competent radiator shop could install one there on any radiator for a reasonable price if you really wanted the fan coolant switch placed there.]

YMMV

rat_n_a_cage · Post by **rat_n_a_cage** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:20 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote: To justify the $2,500 the profit margin would have to be around 20%; an understandable price point with a niche market small volume item.

I don't know who I spoke with, but he claimed he was making only $200 on it,.

What leaves me scratching my head from a business standpoint is that Hartwood obviously knows the Merkur market as good as anyone, so he had to know what the "market" would bear, and this isn't even in the ball-park.

I suppose it could have R&D value. If the test numbers are what they say, then this system is obviously overkill except for the most serious of racers. I'd like them to take whatever they've learned and try to make a more economical package - we can always hope.

Post by **jasonty** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:40 pm

it was made for a loyal customer.so if he sells a few hes good w/it.if he dosent i dont think hes lost any time on it.
if i can get a few dollars out of my MP set up and sell my like new rad.i may be the second person to get one.but yea thats still a $#!* load of money. but rapidos system is over 1000 and MPs system is like 1200 + each w/out a rad. and fans,etc.so the price isnt that far off.

rat_n_a_cage wrote:
Ed Lijewski wrote: To justify the $2,500 the profit margin would have to be around 20%; an understandable price point with a niche market small volume item.
I don't know who I spoke with, but he claimed he was making only $200 on it,.

What leaves me scratching my head from a business standpoint is that Hartwood obviously knows the Merkur market as good as anyone, so he had to know what the "market" would bear, and this isn't even in the ball-park.

I suppose it could have R&D value. If the test numbers are what they say, then this system is obviously overkill except for the most serious of racers. I'd like them to take whatever they've learned and try to make a more economical package - we can always hope.

d3m0n1c50ld13r · Post by **d3m0n1c50ld13r** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:50 pm

jasonty wrote:it was made for a loyal customer.so if he sells a few hes good w/it.if he dosent i dont think hes lost any time on it.
if i can get a few dollars out of my MP set up and sell my like new rad.i may be the second person to get one.but yea thats still a $#!* load of money. but rapidos system is over 1000 and MPs system is like 1200 + each w/out a rad. and fans,etc.so the price isnt that far off.

Thats thats a $1000 radiator...

Edit: seeing as the other kits come with piping, and BPV's

Post by **jasonty** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:35 pm

no.no.noway.compared to other systems i would think 2000 would be great but anymore a little bit on the high side.who know ill talk to em soon and see what the guys have to say about the price.
[/quote]

Thats thats a $1000 radiator...

Edit: seeing as the other kits come with piping, and BPV's[/quote]

fastmaul · Post by **fastmaul** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:37 pm

Ed Lijewski wrote:
fastmaul wrote:
rat_n_a_cage wrote:well, I called... $2500.00
Wow, that's a lotta cheese!!! sheesh, for that money I can get a Real RS500 IC with pipes made! and still have some left over for a rear wing (RS of course).
Yeah. Hard to swallow a price like that for something that doesn't make the car look better and few will ever actually see (the installed system does look nice!).

YMMV

Maybe you've never seen a "Real" RS 500 IC?? it's NOT bling chrome/polished. It is all Black and you don't really see it either.

fastmaul · Post by **fastmaul** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:44 pm

AnHonestCitizen wrote:
Wow, that's a lotta cheese!!! sheesh, for that money I can get a Real RS500 IC with pipes made! and still have some left over for a rear wing (RS of course).
True, but you would have to ditch your AC. Dave's IC/Rad combo is Air Conditioning friendly! Plus, it has a few extra features made just for the XR4Ti, like having the radiator inlets and outlets in the best possible places for our cars, and putting in the fan control switch bung. Even though the RS500 stuff is made for the Sierra, you would have to do some thinking and fabbing once you got it out of the box. You don't have to do that with Dave's kit, so there's some "added value" to it.

Also true is that it is so expensive that it can make you cry. But as I understand it, this is going to be more of a kit than just a bare IC/Rad combo. (I may be wrong about that, though.)

So you can think of Dave's kit as a "No Compromises" Kit. You don't have to ditch your AC. You don't have to use something that's "good enuff", but not optimal for the XR4Ti. Plus, you get a kit that was designed from the outset to be a drop-in installation to our cars.

And what is also true, believe it or not, is that I'm not a paid PR flak for Hartwood Automotive. . . I just play one on the Forum.

That's funny until recently a PM customer had a big HP XR WITH AC.
I think (IMHO) it's bs about the modding of the pipes. you can get a bigger fmic with aluminum rad with fans and get some pipes made and it would still come out less than that.

retrningXR4Timan · Post by **retrningXR4Timan** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:45 pm

i will soon be getting one of those PM intercooler set ups with a bov for a lot less than $2000 and still get to keep my a/c... however, i was very much interested in the hartwood set up when this post started but the price has scared me off.

XR4Tuner · Post by **XR4Tuner** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:34 am

I bought one of Daves 3" exhaust systems and was very impressed with the price and performance. A great value, I was hoping this intercooler setup would be the same. So, I am alittle disappointed. Maybe he should develop a kit with no radiator, that comes with brackes to drop the stock radiator or angle it or something, to get it in the normal XR owner's price range. No doubt the pieces and thought that went into it are worth the price, but some of us just dont have the $$$ to commit to such a product. Maybe a little less product for a little less green?
-Denny
85 XR4Ti 29k No Sunroof

Post by **jasonty** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:41 am

if you drop the stock rad it would be way to low.but it would probably work w/the Saab rad. set up

oneloudmerkur wrote:I bought one of Daves 3" exhaust systems and was very impressed with the price and performance. A great value, I was hoping this intercooler setup would be the same. So, I am alittle disappointed. Maybe he should develop a kit with no radiator, that comes with brackes to drop the stock radiator or angle it or something, to get it in the normal XR owner's price range. No doubt the pieces and thought that went into it are worth the price, but some of us just dont have the $$$ to commit to such a product. Maybe a little less product for a little less green?
-Denny
85 XR4Ti 29k No Sunroof

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Hartwood Automotive's Front Mount Intercooler Announcement

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